Comments on: The Sky Isn’t Falling http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18 Preaching Help from the Writings and Sermon Outlines of Steve Higginbotham Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:52:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Reruns: “Good News and Bad News” (mainly bad, as it turns out) « One In Jesus.info http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-7684 Reruns: “Good News and Bad News” (mainly bad, as it turns out) « One In Jesus.info Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:03:22 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-7684 [...] As a result, there will be reports in the church media arguing that we are doing just fine, such as this one, but we aren’t. And while we may disagree among ourselves as to the changes required, change is [...] [...] As a result, there will be reports in the church media arguing that we are doing just fine, such as this one, but we aren’t. And while we may disagree among ourselves as to the changes required, change is [...]

]]> By: adamoerikom http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-4633 adamoerikom Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:19:52 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-4633 Stunning blog and good article. High 5 for u man ! Stunning blog and good article. High 5 for u man !

]]> By: USA Churches Rank Better, says Flavil Yeakley : BrotherhoodNews.com http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-2629 USA Churches Rank Better, says Flavil Yeakley : BrotherhoodNews.com Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:14:45 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-2629 [...] to an article by Steve Higginbotham, posted on PreachingHelp.org, Yeakley surveyed where the church stands in relation to other religious [...] [...] to an article by Steve Higginbotham, posted on PreachingHelp.org, Yeakley surveyed where the church stands in relation to other religious [...]

]]> By: Theodore http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-1622 Theodore Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:23:10 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-1622 It has long been looking for this information, thank you. It has long been looking for this information, thank you.

]]> By: John F Board http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-123 John F Board Mon, 12 May 2008 20:11:14 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-123 Finally getting some time to check out your blog. Boy I never realized all the extra work that you have to do after writing an article. How do you make the time? Finally getting some time to check out your blog. Boy I never realized all the extra work that you have to do after writing an article. How do you make the time?

]]> By: Carl H Royster http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-110 Carl H Royster Fri, 11 Apr 2008 12:34:37 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-110 ADDENDUM While the 99.3% attendance-to-members figure is mathematically correct, it is not a good statistic as it is a ratio of elements based on two different sums. Attendance is a count based on the adherents present, not just members. For the attendance-to-members ratio to be a valid statistic, there would need to be a figure showing attendance of only the baptized individuals (members). There would be few, if any, congregations that would know that statistic. The correct ratio to use based on the CCUSA data is attendance-to-adherents, which would still leave the Churches of Christ ranked at or near the top when compared to other religious bodies. ADDENDUM
While the 99.3% attendance-to-members figure is mathematically correct, it is not a good statistic as it is a ratio of elements based on two different sums. Attendance is a count based on the adherents present, not just members. For the attendance-to-members ratio to be a valid statistic, there would need to be a figure showing attendance of only the baptized individuals (members). There would be few, if any, congregations that would know that statistic. The correct ratio to use based on the CCUSA data is attendance-to-adherents, which would still leave the Churches of Christ ranked at or near the top when compared to other religious bodies.

]]> By: Carl H Royster http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-106 Carl H Royster Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:45:54 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-106 After viewing the presentation and reading through all the comments, I feel compelled to contribute what I can to hopefully provide a better understanding of part of the data presented. Perhaps I should begin by first stating who I am. I am the current data compiler for the publication CHURCHES OF CHRIST IN THE UNITED STATES (henceforth, CCUSA), published by 21st Century Christian. This is the continuing project that Dr. Mac Lynn started back in the 1970’s with the original publication title WHERE THE SAINTS MEET. The scope of the project seeks to give a historical record of congregations of the Church of Christ whose worship services are a cappella in nature. I have worked closely with Dr. Lynn since the 1997 edition of CCUSA, the first published by 21st Century Christian. Upon the release of the 2003 edition, Dr. Lynn turned this project over to 21st Century Christian, and I have been the data compiler ever since. The 2006 edition of CCUSA was the first released under this arrangement, with Mac providing some assistance as a consultant. The congregational data that Dr. Yeakley presented came primarily from two sources, the CCUSA data and the 2000 edition of the Religious Congregations & Membership Study (RCMS) published by the Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies (ASARB). The data in the RCMS for the Churches of Christ comes from the CCUSA data. The CCUSA data was first included in the RCMS in 1980. Now, I would like to clarify some of the things discussed above as well as provide some additional information that will help to explain the CCUSA data and hopefully give everyone a better understanding from the different perspectives. First, the 99.3% attendance-to-members ratio is not “absurd” if you understand the difference between members and adherents. An ADHERENT is one who currently associates himself/herself with a specific congregation. This includes adults and children; baptized and not baptized; those attending regularly as well as those who do not. MEMBERS, quite simply, are the adherents who are baptized. Many times, when the term “member” is used, the person is actually referring to an adherent resulting in some confusion when that is applied to statistics. That attendance-to-members ratio is correct; however, the attendance-to-adherents ratio has generally been in the mid to upper 70% range. In the 2006 data, the attendance-to-adherents ratio is 76.1%. Next, when observing the data Dr. Yeakley presented, there are some factors that should be taken into account that were not brought out in the presentation. One such factor is that the figures presented were from 1980 to 2000 or later. If you look at the same information from 1990 instead of 1980, the results change quite a bit. Several factors lead to an increase of over 83,000 in the adherents figures between 1980 and 1990, two of the more prominent being better data collection and the rapid growth of the International Churches of Christ (ICOC) or Boston Movement. After 1990, the ICOC separated themselves from the CCUSA project and have since gathered and reported their own statistics. This made up a significant portion of the decline of almost 34,000 adherents between the 1990 and 1994 reports. A second factor is centered around the adoption of instruments into some or all of a congregation’s worship services. While this is not a new factor, it did have a greater impact in the 2006 data. There was a decline of over 11,000 adherents, over half of which came from one congregation, from 2003 to 2006 for this specific reason. Their removal from the CCUSA data was not a statement (or judgement) based on theological position, but rather an adherence to the scope of the project, which was stated earlier, defined by Mac Lynn many years ago, because this is an ongoing, historical collection of data. I hope this helps clarify some of the discussion. For more detailed information, I refer everyone to the 2006 edition of CHURCHES OF CHRIST IN THE UNITED STATES. You may also download the most recent statistical data sheet by state by going to www.21stcc.com and clicking on the CCUSA link. One last thing I would like to point out is that this data is only as accurate as what is reported by the congregations. Whenever you can, please encourage our brethren to update their congregation’s information. There is a Lookup/Submit Changes link on the CCUSA web page available all year round. In addition, data forms will be mailed out to the congregations towards the end of May as preparations for the 2009 edition are underway. The greater the participation, the better the data. Carl H Royster Data Compiler for CHURCHES OF CHRIST in the UNITED STATES System Administrator 21st Century Christian Inc After viewing the presentation and reading through all the comments, I feel compelled to contribute what I can to hopefully provide a better understanding of part of the data presented.

Perhaps I should begin by first stating who I am. I am the current data compiler for the publication CHURCHES OF CHRIST IN THE UNITED STATES (henceforth, CCUSA), published by 21st Century Christian. This is the continuing project that Dr. Mac Lynn started back in the 1970’s with the original publication title WHERE THE SAINTS MEET. The scope of the project seeks to give a historical record of congregations of the Church of Christ whose worship services are a cappella in nature. I have worked closely with Dr. Lynn since the 1997 edition of CCUSA, the first published by 21st Century Christian. Upon the release of the 2003 edition, Dr. Lynn turned this project over to 21st Century Christian, and I have been the data compiler ever since. The 2006 edition of CCUSA was the first released under this arrangement, with Mac providing some assistance as a consultant.

The congregational data that Dr. Yeakley presented came primarily from two sources, the CCUSA data and the 2000 edition of the Religious Congregations & Membership Study (RCMS) published by the Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies (ASARB). The data in the RCMS for the Churches of Christ comes from the CCUSA data. The CCUSA data was first included in the RCMS in 1980.

Now, I would like to clarify some of the things discussed above as well as provide some additional information that will help to explain the CCUSA data and hopefully give everyone a better understanding from the different perspectives.

First, the 99.3% attendance-to-members ratio is not “absurd” if you understand the difference between members and adherents. An ADHERENT is one who currently associates himself/herself with a specific congregation. This includes adults and children; baptized and not baptized; those attending regularly as well as those who do not. MEMBERS, quite simply, are the adherents who are baptized. Many times, when the term “member” is used, the person is actually referring to an adherent resulting in some confusion when that is applied to statistics. That attendance-to-members ratio is correct; however, the attendance-to-adherents ratio has generally been in the mid to upper 70% range. In the 2006 data, the attendance-to-adherents ratio is 76.1%.

Next, when observing the data Dr. Yeakley presented, there are some factors that should be taken into account that were not brought out in the presentation. One such factor is that the figures presented were from 1980 to 2000 or later. If you look at the same information from 1990 instead of 1980, the results change quite a bit. Several factors lead to an increase of over 83,000 in the adherents figures between 1980 and 1990, two of the more prominent being better data collection and the rapid growth of the International Churches of Christ (ICOC) or Boston Movement. After 1990, the ICOC separated themselves from the CCUSA project and have since gathered and reported their own statistics. This made up a significant portion of the decline of almost 34,000 adherents between the 1990 and 1994 reports.

A second factor is centered around the adoption of instruments into some or all of a congregation’s worship services. While this is not a new factor, it did have a greater impact in the 2006 data. There was a decline of over 11,000 adherents, over half of which came from one congregation, from 2003 to 2006 for this specific reason. Their removal from the CCUSA data was not a statement (or judgement) based on theological position, but rather an adherence to the scope of the project, which was stated earlier, defined by Mac Lynn many years ago, because this is an ongoing, historical collection of data.

I hope this helps clarify some of the discussion. For more detailed information, I refer everyone to the 2006 edition of CHURCHES OF CHRIST IN THE UNITED STATES. You may also download the most recent statistical data sheet by state by going to http://www.21stcc.com and clicking on the CCUSA link.

One last thing I would like to point out is that this data is only as accurate as what is reported by the congregations. Whenever you can, please encourage our brethren to update their congregation’s information. There is a Lookup/Submit Changes link on the CCUSA web page available all year round. In addition, data forms will be mailed out to the congregations towards the end of May as preparations for the 2009 edition are underway. The greater the participation, the better the data.

Carl H Royster
Data Compiler for CHURCHES OF CHRIST in the UNITED STATES
System Administrator
21st Century Christian Inc

]]> By: colleges and universities in illinois http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-89 colleges and universities in illinois Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:24:18 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-89 <strong>colleges and universities in illinois...</strong> Your blog makes very interesting reading. I'm sure others will think so too I look forward to reading their comments.... colleges and universities in illinois…

Your blog makes very interesting reading. I’m sure others will think so too I look forward to reading their comments….

]]> By: Joe Baggett http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-84 Joe Baggett Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:31:30 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-84 Here are some things to consider when looking at the actual data that Flavil uses when making his comparisons here. He says that 99.3% of the members of the churches of Christ attend services at least once a week which puts churches of Christ at the top among other religious groups in attendance. This number of 99.3% is absurd. If we looked real hard we might be able to find a few congregations that come close to that but they would be the exception by far. In fact if anyone knows of a congregation where 99 out of every 100 members in the printed membership directory are consistently present at least once a week please let Bobby Ross know they deserve to be reported to the Christian Chronicle as one of the outstanding congregations. Flavil also says that churches of Christ rank first in the distribution of congregations. This is also incorrect depending what perspective you have. The churches affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention outnumber all the variations of churches of Christ congregations (13,000) by almost 3:1 at 41,514 congregations. All of these actual numbers are on Flavil’s PPT presentation downloadable off of FHUs website http://web.fhu.edu/NR/exeres/FCD0EE7D-06E1-4C20-B176-70F9CC2F09C0,frameless.htm. Lastly any statistician worth their salt knows that the so called growth of 2.1 % or 26,232 since 1980 is well within the margin or error within the data range of 2 million. So at absolute best in brutal honesty the churches of Christ are just holding their own in terms of membership. Take a look for yourself. It is time for us in the churches of Christ to stop fabricating and twisting actual numbers into something that is not reality. These issues have always given me reason not to take Flavil’s numbers at face value. Please not respond with comments about how I don’t love the truth or do know good news when I hear it or anything like that. I have heard it all before. If there is reliable data to the contrary I am more than open to listen but have learned by experience to verify it to make sure the perspective and actual data is correct. I am tired of the rumor mill driven by both the polar ends of the spectrum within the churches of Christ and the so called middle road or mainline. Here are some things to consider when looking at the actual data that Flavil uses when making his comparisons here. He says that 99.3% of the members of the churches of Christ attend services at least once a week which puts churches of Christ at the top among other religious groups in attendance. This number of 99.3% is absurd. If we looked real hard we might be able to find a few congregations that come close to that but they would be the exception by far. In fact if anyone knows of a congregation where 99 out of every 100 members in the printed membership directory are consistently present at least once a week please let Bobby Ross know they deserve to be reported to the Christian Chronicle as one of the outstanding congregations. Flavil also says that churches of Christ rank first in the distribution of congregations. This is also incorrect depending what perspective you have. The churches affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention outnumber all the variations of churches of Christ congregations (13,000) by almost 3:1 at 41,514 congregations. All of these actual numbers are on Flavil’s PPT presentation downloadable off of FHUs website http://web.fhu.edu/NR/exeres/FCD0EE7D-06E1-4C20-B176-70F9CC2F09C0,frameless.htm. Lastly any statistician worth their salt knows that the so called growth of 2.1 % or 26,232 since 1980 is well within the margin or error within the data range of 2 million. So at absolute best in brutal honesty the churches of Christ are just holding their own in terms of membership. Take a look for yourself. It is time for us in the churches of Christ to stop fabricating and twisting actual numbers into something that is not reality. These issues have always given me reason not to take Flavil’s numbers at face value. Please not respond with comments about how I don’t love the truth or do know good news when I hear it or anything like that. I have heard it all before. If there is reliable data to the contrary I am more than open to listen but have learned by experience to verify it to make sure the perspective and actual data is correct. I am tired of the rumor mill driven by both the polar ends of the spectrum within the churches of Christ and the so called middle road or mainline.

]]> By: Gary Massey http://preachinghelp.org/wordpress/?p=18&cpage=1#comment-78 Gary Massey Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:27:41 +0000 http://preachinghelp.org/?p=18#comment-78 I have now received Dr. Yeakley's book and have digested part of it. As to the dropout rate, it was intimated that 66% of our kids are leaving the church when they leave home. According to Dr. Yeakley's findings, about 45% of children in the church of Christ leave after graduating high school. This means 55% do not. However, approximately another 12% later return to the church, leaving an effective retention rate of 67%, not a drop-out rate of 66%. This still leaves an unacceptable number of souls raised in the church being lost, but the sky is not falling. As for a few more funerals being the end of the church, I have never attended a congregation made up only of people who grew up in churches of Christ. Every congregation I know has a significant percentage of people reared outside the churches of Christ. From my experience, this trend has not ended. Thus, even if we don't retain all of our children, growth is not precluded, even according to actual statistics and experience, not to mention the power of God. I have now received Dr. Yeakley’s book and have digested part of it. As to the dropout rate, it was intimated that 66% of our kids are leaving the church when they leave home. According to Dr. Yeakley’s findings, about 45% of children in the church of Christ leave after graduating high school. This means 55% do not. However, approximately another 12% later return to the church, leaving an effective retention rate of 67%, not a drop-out rate of 66%. This still leaves an unacceptable number of souls raised in the church being lost, but the sky is not falling.
As for a few more funerals being the end of the church, I have never attended a congregation made up only of people who grew up in churches of Christ. Every congregation I know has a significant percentage of people reared outside the churches of Christ. From my experience, this trend has not ended. Thus, even if we don’t retain all of our children, growth is not precluded, even according to actual statistics and experience, not to mention the power of God.

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